Victorian Book of the Dead

[HoneyMaker]

Having said that though, why not? It's up to people to be mature and responsible enough to make their own choices. After all - they don't have to look do they.

This was the reason I decided to post this thread. I'd been trying to decide if it was a good idea or not, after i'd recieved the pm's, but eventually I decided if there was a disclaimer there shouldn't be complaints. Users don't have to continue reading.


When you read the sites that publish these it is clear that this practice has not ceased, there are many families that do continue to do this but as you say it is a very personal/private thing at the photographs are not necessarily shown.


Bluemoonjules, i'm glad to have another view on this. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread and comment despite the fact that you don't agree with the subject matter

[Vickie]

I don't think its at all morbid. Having said that I wouldn't put a pic of a deceased loved one in pride of place above the fire either!
I think lie another poster said death has become a taboo subject and as such we're fearful of it. The links you posted were really fascinating - the pictures were taken with love and as so many of them now are in such good condition you can tell they were treasured.

[HoneyMaker]

The Victorians made a whole industry of death, and believed that murdered people had an image of their murderer captured in their eyes (I think that's what a previous poster was referring to).

It was not the Victorians that started this. Long before there have always been mourning periods and fashions that surrounded it. It was general practice to wear black for the first year then dark colours - bottle green, maroon etc and wear particular jewellery. The Victorians just made this available to the masses. Also the breakthroughs in medicine made death more 'interesting' - post mortems etc

In places such as Mexico and Eastern Europe this photography is still a 'normal' practice (apparently)


I'm still waiting for the question to be answered . . . Could you, would you ever consider taking photographs like this and even taking it that step further and scrapbooking them for your own personal viewing?

[Vickie]

No, unless it was a baby and then I would consider scrapping it too

[Lesley Florence]

For my own personal album? Yes i would.
In fact my dad even said in jest that he expected me to..He has a terminal illness and has been to therapy titled Preparing you for death. It had all the practical advice in it and after my dad showed me it my mother shredded it.Well i didnt believe it to be honest!
My dad and i discuss his passing like you would a programme you watched on tv.Its not weird at all hes just conveying his wishes to the family.I know he isnt religious and i know what he doesnt want to be seen dead wearing!
So yes i know i shall when the time comes.
But he knows that already.
Lx

[Damkina]

I've had to sit and think about this one before answering. The subject of photographing is, for want of a better word, fascinating. Not to everyone's taste but from my own point of vew when when my Nannan passed away a few years ago, I would, but would not put the photo on display.

We had all gone to the chapel of rest to view her, and as tradition, put flowers in her coffin. I went in with my sisters.

She looked like she did when having her afternoon nap, and still looked plump, pink and rosy as she did on the day she died. I remember thinking how 'good' she looked and was alarmed by my own thoughts. My youngest sister then said, "She looks good enough to take a photograph of her!"

A few days later we were talking about our Nannan and what she looked like when we went to see her. We then wished we 'had' taken a photo, but none of us had liked to suggest it because it would seem wrong and not the done thing.

In this day and age, I think that it's more a social taboo and what is/what isn't expected rather than what those left behind want.

Thank you for broaching the subject.

[LisaPink]

I'm not sure what I think about this. I'd never heard of it & to be honest havent looked at the links but was interested to read what people have said. I can understand why people would want photos, esp. if the deceased was a baby or a young child. However I dont understand why people would want photos of an older relative, as there may be other photos of them whilst they were living that they could remember them by. I saw my Grandad pass away, & then saw his body about 30 mins later & it wasnt him, it didnt even resemble him so I wouldnt have wanted a photo of him like that as it took long enough to get that image out of my head to remember him as he would have wanted.

I guess its down to the individual person/family.

Thanks for raising this topic, its definately an interesting one (& sorry for rambling!!)

[Helen M]

i have to be honest that, i feel, a lot of people look at these photos because of morbid curiousity. they are extremely personal photos and i cant imagine anyone wanting to share them round, especially on a scrapbook page. i can completely understand where newborns are concerned, but i think the rest of it is odd, why would you want to remember someone that way?

interesting topic but i think people should ask themselves why they would want to stare at these types of photo, of other peoples relatives. sorry if ive offended anyone, that really isnt why i posted

[NickyRich]

I must be honest, I can't imagine sharing photos of my loved ones after they had passed away but I can see why people would want photos of their baby and if they would want to scrap the photos then I think they would be very brave to do this. However, personally, I wished for ages that I hadn't see my sister in her coffin in the chapel of rest as it just wasn't her but the image stayed in my mind for ages. I would rather scrap photos of my loved ones with the 'light of life' in their eyes

[Marie R]

What I found fascinating looking at the photos was how calm and peaceful the people holding the babies were.

The daughter of one of my best friends died very suddenly at the age of 15 years. Obviously she was totally devastated but I know that she always has photos of her daughter, in her coffin, with her, together with ones of her in happier times.

Her reasoning for this was that she had photos of her daughter at all other times of her life. Am not sure that I would do it.

Thanks for posting the thread it has really made me think.

[Flapsi Hapsi]

I'm not sure I would - it is an interesting question, and I agree from a quick look that there something calming about those photos, and we do as a culture keep death at arms lenghth which is maybe ok until you have to face it!
To answer your question I have very strong images in my mind of both my gran and my dad in their coffins in the chapel of rest - and I was about 11 when my gran died. These are very vivid photographic memories, which I don't think will ever leave me, so to be honest, I don't need the actual photo.

[Annie]

I'm still waiting for the question to be answered . . . Could you, would you ever consider taking photographs like this and even taking it that step further and scrapbooking them for your own personal viewing?

No.

When I did my last post I wrote something similar to what I am about to write and took it out as it seemed inappropriate to what I had written, but since you ask....

When my mum was diagnosed with a terminal illness I stopped taking pictures in her presence, apart from family celebrations like Christmas where I would snap everyone and have mum in as many pics as I could manage. It felt like if I took a picture it would be "just in case" it was the last photo of her or the last time I saw her or whatever. I don't even know if she would have seen it that way, but in my heart that is what I would have been doing. I do have some pics of her that the hospice staff took, but that was different iykwim - one was on an outing, one with Santa at their Christmas do and one they took for the hospice brochure of her with one of the nurses.

I wasn't there when she died, and by the time I got there she had been taken to the funeral home (sounds like they rushed her out, but they didn't - my brother, sister and niece all got to sit with her after). I did see her at the funeral home, just a few hours after she died, but in death, combined with the effects of her illness, it wasn't her there. It wouldn't even have occurred to me to take a photo and I would have felt disrespectful if I had, I think.

I haven't even managed to scrap the pics of her at the hospice yet, so I can't see how I would scrap one of her dead. The closest I have got is one taken about 7 years before she died, but she had been diagnosed as terminal at this stage. Couldn't not take a pic of her with her newest grandchild though, could I? (Another excuse, you see).

[leeann21]

I think depending on the circumstances i would, it wouldnt be something that i would share with anyone at all though...i had a friends whos daughter died when she was 9weeks old and she had an album of about 7 photos of her daughter after she had passed, there are pictures of her with the baby and family and the baby by itself.....seems morbid but it was for her to remember her last moments with her daughter, it wasnt something she shared with people and i havent actually seen the pics she just told me about them

[Hysteri-CAL]

I'm sorry, but I feel physically sick after seeing these photos.

Although I read the disclaimer, I was still intrigued - so my own fault I feel this way.

I am particularly remembering my father the second he died. He'd suffered with cancer for 11 years and was literally skin and bone. Some of the people in these photographs look like that - ravaged.

I find nothing peaceful about them whatsoever.

Sorry - not my cup of tea - and I wish I hadn't have clicked.

[nikkimitch]

Thanks for posting this thread - certainly gives food for thought. As a family historian I am fascinated by old photographs and have been lucky enough to acquire several of my family going back several generations. I can understand why Victoirans felt the need for these photos with the way photography was used then and can see why it would be frowned upon today with death being such a taboo, secret affair.

While working as a gp I worked in a local childrens hospice which had a room set aside for when a child died - the family were encouraged to bring things from home and set the room up like the child's bedroom, play music and spend as long with the child as they needed to say goodbye - I am sure in this setting photos wouldnt be frowned on at all.

When my grandad died I wish I had taken a photo but I have a vivid picture in my mind - he had a stroke 20 years before and his face was distorted making it difficult to shave properly so his face was alwasy stubbly - in death the muscles finally relaxed, he was smiling instead of grimacing and his face - shaved by the undertaker - was as smooth as a baby's bottom - he looked so handsome. My grandmother on the other hand died after a fall and hitting the side of her face in a nursing home - when we saw her a day or so later most of her face was black from the bruising and she didnt look like my gran at all.

Again when working I helped people deal with still borns and also late terminations for gross abnormalitis by dressing the child and taking footprints and photos - in one case we did all this after the parents said they didnt want anything as we had got to know them so well before the event we knew they would change their minds and regret not having pictures - we were right and they were so grateful to have something to remember their child.

For some reason when our dogs died I felt the need to take their pictures - I wasnt a scrapbooker at the time and the photos are kept in an envelope in my desk - feel very sad when I look at them and not sure I want them but cant bring myself to destroy them - just want to remember them happy.

Sorry HUGE waffling post - very interesting subject thanks for starting an interesting thread will watch the discussion with interest.