Victorian Book of the Dead

[Modie-may]

What truly beautiful photos. Made my cry and then pick up my 5mth old son who is rolling around and cooing on the floor and hug him tight.

[SarahPitts]

I have photos of my two babies, twins, who were lost just over half way through the pregnancy.
I understand that for some people it is not very nice, but for me as their mother it is wonderful reminder of them and how they were, even though they didn't look like normal babies, they were very pink and fragile, but fully formed.

I am creating a memory book and the photos and other items will for part of it, so that in years to come we have something that we can show our other children and tell them what happened.

They were a very big part of our lives at the time. I think for me not to have photos of them would be very hard. It would have made grieving more difficult, perhaps because the day they dies was the day we meet them for first time.

[totty]

It doesn't bother me, it's what ever people wants todo, no-one can say it is right or wrong.

I went to my partner's Grandads funeral, it seemed as normal funeral to me at first, where it was in a church, reading and hyms. But at the end of the service they were going to open the coffin, so people could see him one last time again, i knew that happened at some people funeral. But then the Grandad's sister started taking photos. I was shocked cos i had never seen or heard of that being done. But again it was upto her, it was not for me to say it was wrong (not that I would). But it just seemed strange to me at first.

But speaking to a friend a few days later he had heard of this in Jamaica, where my partners Grandad and family are from.

[Twiggy_Stardust]

I havent read this whole topic but wondered if anyone has got pics of their beloved dead ones from the victorian era?
also does anyone know if there is a book about this?

[Twiggy_Stardust]

p.s i dont actaully want to see the pics of ur realatives im just interested in knowing if any families have kept the pics all these years

[SLParsloe]

That website is absolutely amazing. Everyone is so aware of miscarriage or the 'usual' abnormalities that everyone is checked for when pregnant, that we forget about the other side of babies not surviving, but still being born. Thank you for showing us.

I have so many conflicting opinions going in my brain, I've re-written this about 20 times! So I'll just leave it at answering the topic, yes I would take photos. I find Scrapbooking my therapy, for good and bad. I scrap good and bad in my life, so why not life and death. I realise that some people wouldn't want to see these, and so would keep them in an album, then it is up to people to choose to look or not.

Each to their own as they say.

I read a post of a lady on here who had laid out her grandparents and parent and found her views on the subject very interesting. And I think she is amazing.

Thank you for bringing this one up. Fantastic topic. x

[BeckyG1]

I havent read this whole topic but wondered if anyone has got pics of their beloved dead ones from the victorian era?
also does anyone know if there is a book about this?

My MIL had an uncle who was stillborn in the late 1800's and she still has the photo that was taken of him. He looks as if he is asleep in his crib and MIL says that the photo was on display and he was always talked about.

My sister had a stillborn daughter at 38 weeks and my mum took photos of her holding her and in also of Charlotte in the crib. When she took the film into Boots to be developed she warned them what was on there and they were extremely compassionate and didn't charge her for them. The photos were the only time I got to meet my niece. My sister keeps the photos and hand/footprints in a memory box and occasionally looks at them. We had a full funeral, but she still cannot go to the church where the ashes were spread and that was 7 years ago (she has since gone on to have another two beautiful healthy daughters).

I agree with most of the people on here that I would probably not take photos of adults, but would of a stillborn as I know what a comfort the photos of Charlotte have been.

Sorry if I have rambled on a bit. A very thought provoking topic which I have thoroughly enjoyed reading.

[WeeMary]

Personally I think it's nice. As a way of remembering someone who was loved, when photos were rare, it might have been their only record of a child. The only one I found creepy was the young woman photographed several days after death, sitting up holding a book.

I find the photographs easier to understand than what my Grandpa's parents did - we found two birth certificates for the exact same name, a few years apart. The first son died as an infant, so they gave the next boy the same names. That to me, was like forgetting the dead child, "replacing" him with a new son. I prefer the idea of photographs to keep the memory.

[ScrappyDandyDoo]

I have to say its quite traditional in some countries, my dad is Polish.
I am often given photos to look at of brothers/uncles etc and they are in their coffins, or pictures of the family mourning at the coffin side.
I find it quite hard to look at to be honest but try not to show it.
Don't think dad helps by just saying " here's a pic of your uncle"

[Freedom]

A few years ago,my brother and some of his college friends went to Australia to work for a year.One of the friends was killed in a tragic accident in the desert.In order to ship his body home it had to go in a casket which couldn't be opened once here.The young mans Mother asked the other boys to organise a service before his body was shipped home. They took a lot of photographs of their friend laid out and of the service so she would have a sense of what took place.It was sad but very comforting for the Mother as she could never see him again.

[Mandy]

Thanks for this very interesting thread. I clicked on the links and found them really moving. It really shows how society has moved on and how we now view what is acceptable and what isnt.

What I really wanted to ask, mentioned in the first page of this thread is 'The others' - can anyone tell me what/who this refers to please?

Thanks

[wedding belle]

[.

I find the photographs easier to understand than what my Grandpa's parents did - we found two birth certificates for the exact same name, a few years apart. The first son died as an infant, so they gave the next boy the same names. That to me, was like forgetting the dead child, "replacing" him with a new son. I prefer the idea of photographs to keep the memory.[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean Mary, but I've done alot of family history research and it was very common practice to give a new child the name of one that had died. I think it was viewed as a way of honouring the dead child rather than replacing them.

[ElysianAngel]

I think that the photos of children are beautiful, the adults I find a little harder to understand, but I write from a perspective where vidoes and many photos are available of loved ones. The youngest child of one of my friends died soon after birth and his photo takes pride of place on her mantlepiece. I think it is a beautiful thing to have on display as he is as much part of her family as her other children.

[leanie]

I just checked out all the links - I felt strangely detached from the victorian photos, even of the babies. Please don't think I'm cold and heartless, I think that it may be to do with the fact that now the people who needed these photos to remember are also gone, so I know they are together and at peace.
NILMDTS however, cried my heart out. Sorry if this seems a double standard to people, but knowing that these families are most likely still around now, and have to wait to be reunited... knowing you could be holding them so close yet know they were so far from you breaks my heart.

(keys clouded over then - DS2 (11mths) chose the perfect time to crawl into my lap, bless him)

I think that this is something that depends on the situation for each death... I'm scared of dying, missing out on the lives of and not being there to protect my children, and petrified of seeing a dead body in real life, but think that in some cases photos would have given me a less intense experience and helped with closure - seeing that they were gone and at peace.
I've only seen two people at rest:
My MIL died suddenly 3 weeks before our wedding, but I still like to think of her as a MIL. The doctors told us she was suffering from scarred lungs as a result of recurrent pneumonia, this was only because my MIL had invoked the doctor-patient confidentiality clause. She had actually developed lung cancer and refused all treatment - this was such a blow for her husband and 3 sons to deal with I had to supervise the removal of her jewellery (which petrified me), organise the funeral, register the death, choose her final outfit, and finally my FIL asked me to see her at rest (again, petrified). They just couldn't come to terms with it all and I'm glad there's no record for them as I still can't forget her face.
On the flip side I helped my grandmother to look at her sister before the coffin was closed in the chapel of rest the day of the funeral - again lots of the family argued about it but my gran and I smiled through the tears because she looked just like herself, and my gran often says she wishes she could have taken a picture, which I find odd from someone from her generation, giving the sanitising mentioned previously in this thread.

I think your response depends on the situation - with my MIL I felt that I wasn't given a choice because nobody else could do it, and this coupled with being alone in the experience probably prejudiced my mind, and outweighed the fact that I was doing it for them. I want to forget it, not scrap it.
But in the second scenario (which actually occurred first, thinking about it) I was glad to be there, helping my grandmother, and seeing my GA at rest. I know that if my gran had taken that photo of Aunty Irene I would have scrapped it, although I don't know where I would have put it - maybe in a secret page in the back of album so that I could chose who saw it and who didn't.

On the subject of children, some friends have a scan photo of their miscarried baby framed and on display in their kitchen - I think it was meant to be private but saw it when I went round to feed their cats whilst they were away. They mentioned it after their next child had been delivered and I was pregnant, as it was part of some issues I was having, and were very shocked to know I'd seen it - I immediately wished I hadn't mentioned it as it was obviously something private, and had intruded on their grief, but they assured me absolutely that it was ok, and that deep down if they'd wanted to keep it private they wouldn't have put it up- its still there. I think its a lovely reminder to have, and am glad that although they have been through something so traumatic they don't want to block out the memories- but if it was me I would have have scrapped it and kept it private.

Sorry this took so long - I tried to keep the salient points but felt that some of it needed explaining so people would understand my reasoning.

And well done for bringing such an interesting discussion to us - I think that there are plenty of 'to scrap or not to scrap?' moments throughout our lives, but that this is one of the hardest calls.
L xx

[leanie]

Sorry that looks much longer now its up than it did in the box
L xx